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Chalepos

Colombia
6 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2007 :  10:43:12  

 

The two millennia of Christian hellenism by themselves prove the inner relationship between ancient Greece and Christianity. this is not my opinion nor the opinion of Greeks as Celsus, Porphyrius or Julianus, this is a christian graologìa (see LSJ graologìa s.v.).

I think that exists a more inner relationship between ancient Greece (during the hellenistic period) and the ancient India, that between Greeks and Christians, as shows the similarities and differences, for example, in theology.

The professor Hans Friedrich Karl Günther says:

La soumission servile de l'homme à Dieu est une caractéristique des peuples de langues sémitiques. Les noms de Baal, Adon, Melech (Moloch), Rabbat et autres désignent des avatars d'un Dieu absolu devant lequel se prosternent, le front collé au sol, des hommes-esclaves: ses créatures. Pour l'Indo-européen au contraire, honorer Dieu, prier une divinité, c'est encourager et cultiver toutes les impulsions nobles de l'homme: le Romain utilisera le verbe colere, et le Grec le verbe therapeuein. Dans les langues sémitiques, le terme «prier» dérive de la racine abad qui signifie «être esclave». Hanna (1. Samuel, 1, 11) demande à Yahvé, au départ dieu de la tribu des Hébreux, de lui offrir un fils, à elle, son esclave; David se définit lui-même (2. Samuel, 7, 18) comme un serviteur de son Dieu, tout comme Salomon (2. Rois, 3, 6). C'est la crainte, la terreur, qui constitue l'essence de Yahvé (cf. 2. Moïse, 23, 27; Isaïe, 8, 13). Les Indo-européens n'ont jamais perçu leurs dieux de cette manière. Les Hymnes à Zeus de stoïcien Cléanthe d'Assos (331-233), dont Paul de Tarse s'est inspiré afin de s'adapter au mental hellénique, contredit radicalement la religiosité exprimée notamment dans le Psaume 90.

Dans le christianisme également, l'attitude du croyant devant Dieu se désigne très souvent par l'adjectif humilis, montrant par là que l'humilité, le sentiment de servilité constitue le noyau ultime de cette religiosité. Une telle attitude n'est en rien indo-européenne; elle dérive d'une religiosité orientale. Parce qu'il n'est pas «serviteur» ou «esclave» d'un Dieu jaloux et absolu, l'Indo-européen ne prie généralement pas à genoux ou ployé en direction de la terre, mais debout avec le regard tourné vers le haut, les bras tendus vers le ciel.

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Chalepos

Colombia
6 Posts

Posted - 06 Jul 2007 :  19:13:31  

 

Dear C. you will see this: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/india/indiasbook.html

Greek and Chinese Sources

General

Greek Sources

Greek Reports of India & Aryavarta [At this Site]
From Herodotus.
Herodotus (c.490-c.425 BCE): The Histories 440BCE [At MIT][Full Text][Chapter length files][Book VII on the Persian War]
Map: Alexander's Conquests to 323BCE [At PSU]
Animated Map: Alexander's Campaigns [At WWU]
Plutarch (c.46-c.120 CE): Life of Alexander [At MIT]
Arrian: Anabasis Alexandri: Book VIII (Indica) [At this Site]
Strabo: Geography: Book XV: On India [At this Site]
Pliny: Natural History 6.96-111. (On India) [At this Site]
The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea: Travel and Trade in the Indian Ocean by a Merchant of the First Century [At this Site]
India and the Mediterranean: Bibliography [At this Site]

Soon I will send you more things, euprattein, arc.

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George

Greece
615 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2007 :  08:37:40  

 

Dear "Chalepe"

I don't think that you answer to the argument about the Christianization of hellenism. There exist various estimations of the ancient Greek and the Christian religious feelings. Beyond all these, the fact remains that Greek people chose Christianity, they remained faithfull to this choice for two millennia until today, under many difficult circumstances, when it was more than convenient to abandon Christianity.

Ancient Greece is not a collection of texts and monuments, it is the Greek people. If they changed to Christianity, we must discover what unites their earlier mentality with the Christian one, or else pronounce them mad and schizophrenic.

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Chalepos

Colombia
6 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2007 :  10:34:39  

 

Allà, hôs Platôn phêsi, ti hêmin, ô makarie George, houtô tês tôn pollôn doxês melei;

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George

Greece
615 Posts

Posted - 07 Jul 2007 :  13:56:13  

 

I think you don't understand the difference between "οἱ πολλοί" and a people. Homer or Plato, etc., were not born in a void, but among a people, a society, that gave them first of all their language. You can not keep Plato without the rest of the Greeks, as you can not keep Victor Hugo without the rest of the French.

Eminent persons represent the best of their people not something alien, from another planet. The "herd" or the "mob" is the worst element of the same people, not all the people as such. It is known that ancient Greeks honored Homer, Plato and all their spiritual tradition. It was not a mass of morons that turned to Christianity, but people who loved the old traditions of Greece, which is also the reason why Byzantium saved and studied the ancient Greek texts.

Besides this, there exist also eminent persons in Christianity. Are the Cappadocian fathers a mob? Is Maximus, or Symeon, or Augustine, or Meister Eckhart, a mob? Why did they stay Christian instead of returning to Zeus and Hera? The serious question is what spiritual properties and realisations are common between their earlier mentality and the Christian one, what is it in their very ancient self that permitted them to turn to Christianity.

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