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Bojan

12 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2009 :  19:58:54  Show Profile

 

Hello again, George.

I find your answers really helpful, so bear with me a little more...

The prayer to the Guardian Angel you have posted is the one we have in morning prayers. We have a different one in evening prayers... If possible, please post that one, if not, never mind.

One other prayer... From the beginning of the Akathist to our Most Holy Theotokos, the one that ends with "Rejoice, thou Bride Unwedded" (the first song, or Kontakion 1).

And how do you pronounce γκ (not κγ, or γγ)?
For example, in Αξιον εστιν, the word ασυγκριτως?

Is it GK, as the letters would suggest, or does it change somehow?

One last question: there are some words with no accents, other than those little comas above letters, or inverted comas. What are these, and how are they used? For instance, in the word ἐλέησόν, I see "typical" accent marks above the second E, and O... What exactly is the sign above the first letter E? In the word εστιν, there is only a "coma" above E. How is it used?

Thanks,
Bojan.

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George

Greece
477 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2009 :  02:36:42  Show Profile

 

Bojan, the angel prayer is for the evening. Please note the phrase "Σκέπασόν με ἐν τῇ παρούσῃ νυκτί". How could we say in the morning "cover me in the present night"?

The Akathist hymn complete in Greek, here: http://www.ellopos.net/notebook/akathisthymn.htm

In your previous message you write about κγ meaning γκ. Forget about κγ, there is no problem there, you just pronounce both letters.

The γκ issues are due to the ν that is hidden in this γ. Think of the συγγνώμη case. The word comes from συν (=along with, together, etc) and γνώμη (=view, opinion). When συν encounters γνώμη transforms the final ν into a γ, so that instead of writing συνγνώμη, we write συγγνώμη. This happens because ν and γ retaining their value would sound ugly. The ν transformed into γ makes γγ sound like a single γ, so we pronounce as if it was written συγνώμη.

In the case of γκ, for example in the encounter of συν with κατάβασις, we have συγκατάβασις, where ν again is transformed to γ, but being together with k it is somehow (very very softly) pronounced.

The 'accents' that resemble commas are called breathings. You can read more on them at http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/lessons/lesson2.asp?pg=6 and at http://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/lessons/greek-accentuation.asp

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Bojan

12 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2009 :  18:54:10  Show Profile

 

Sorry, I think there was a bit of misunderstanding. I wasn't talking about "κγ meaning γκ"; I was just trying to learn how to pronounce γκ when it is written just like that, as in ασυγκριτως?

As for the prayer, correct me if I'm wrong (after all, I don't speak Greek), but I believe that you have sent me the following prayer:
"O holy angel that standeth by my wretched soul and my passionate life, forsake not me a sinner, nor shrink from me because of mine intemperance. Give no place for the cunning demon to master me through the violence of my mortal body, strenghten my poor and feeble hand, and guide me in the way of salvation. Yea, o holy angel of God, guardian and protector of my wretched soul and body, forgive me all wherein I have offended thee all the days of my life; and if I have sinned during the past night, protect me during the present day, and guard me from every temptation of the enemy, that I may not anger God by any sin. And pray to the Lord for me, that He may establish me in His fear, and show me, His servant, to be worthy of His goodness. Amen." So, it might have been modified when it was originally translated from Greek, but that prayer is definitely in the morning prayers in Serbian, Russian and Church Slavonic prayer books. You have noticed that in the translation it says "protect me during the present day", so I guess it was modified, and the prayer that I'm looking for is maybe not even in Greek prayer books. Well, not a big deal - there are so many others.

Thanks for the Akathist hymn.

I have actually just found that prayer on this site, and it is from Jordanville Prayerbook (I was typing it from the hard copy of the same book that I've got). Is there a Greek Orthodox Prayerbook on the net, in Greek?

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Bojan

12 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2009 :  19:35:27  Show Profile

 

I KNEW I FORGOT SOMETHING.

ντ, when I listen to it on audio files, I always hear, basically, nd, or nD if you will. One thing confuses me a little: Pantokrator. Is it really pronounced "Pandokrator" in Greek?

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George

Greece
477 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2009 :  04:27:18  Show Profile

 

Hi Bojan. The prayer is the same in the first part, and it changes as it ends. Obviously, your version is a morning prayer, while the one I gave you is for the evening. Here are the changes:

Morning version (yours): Forgive me all wherein I have offended thee all the days of my life; and if I have sinned during the past night, protect me during the present day, and guard me from every temptation of the enemy, etc.

Evening version (in Greek): πάντα μοι συγχώρησον, ὅσα σοὶ ἔθλιψα πάσας τὰς ἡμέρας τῆς ζωῆς μου, καὶ εἴ τι ἥμαρτον τὴν σήμερον ἡμέραν [=today]. Σκέπασόν με ἐν τῇ παρούσῃ νυκτὶ [=Cover me during this night] καὶ διαφύλαξόν με ἀπὸ πάσης ἐπηρείας τοῦ ἀντικειμένου, κλπ.

The nD sound is how the meeting of ν with t usually is pronounced, not as a single D, nor as N-T, but as a d containing also a soft n. E.g. Pantokrator is not pronounced pan-to-krator, nor padokrator, but pandokrator.

For liturgical texts in Greek, check this site

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